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Ethics

r/Ethics

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Crossposted by1 day ago
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Posted by4 days ago

Plato’s Crito is a short dialogue that begins with the title character arriving in Socrates’ prison cell with news that the time for his execution is drawing near. Unjustly condemned by an Athenian jury for corrupting youth with his questions, Socrates refuses Crito’s offer to secure his escape which could be easily obtained through bribery.

Displaying no fear of death, Socrates rejects the reasons Crito provides to justify breaking Athenian laws, among them the sense of shame the majority would bring to bear on Crito for failing to help Socrates avoid the fate of injustice. “Would that the majority could inflict the greatest evils,” Socrates tells Crito, “for they would then be capable of the greatest good, and that would be fine, but now they cannot do either. They cannot make a man either wise or foolish, but they inflict things haphazardly.”

To suffer injustice is better than to do injustice, Socrates argues, and to leave without the city’s permission would be to harm the people who should be harmed the least. As Socrates imagines himself in discussion with the city’s laws, giving themselves credit for his birth, nurture, and education, would we see matters similarly when confronted by a wrong? Is it proper for one person to take the law into his hands to right a wrong, and is any individual capable of determining the correct balance between justice and injustice? We might see modern parallels to the moral and ethical questions faced by Socrates some 2,500 years ago, as Plato’s Crito invites us to consider the nature of the ‘bargain’ that binds individuals and societies from one life to the next.

https://preview.redd.it/rh8o87e1ci7b1.jpg?width=600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&v=enabled&s=338d20572d0d7f86b9da45968a1264e7b620ddee

Please read the short dialogue (about 10 pages) in advance of our discussion.

Sign up for the Monday June 26 session here to get the Zoom link - https://www.meetup.com/the-toronto-philosophy-meetup/events/294247714/

(Also check out the Plato's Critias live reading group, on courage, currently happening every Saturday - https://www.meetup.com/the-toronto-philosophy-meetup/events/calendar/)

TIP: When reading Plato, pay attention to the details of the drama as much as the overtly philosophical discourse. Attentive readers of Plato know that he is often trying to convey important messages with both in concert.

For some background on Plato, see his entry in the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/plato/

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Posted by3 days ago

I don’t know anything about the study of Ethics, so forgive me if this has been addressed ad nauseam. And a quick search and personal experience has educated me to the notion that we claim torture is never acceptable, as it is inhumane. But entertain the following:

A subject has alerted authorities of a vast number of times explosives in random high traffic hubs amongst the populace. The subject has demonstrated the validity of their claims by voluntarily offering the locations of a large amount of bombs, which are discovered, and found to be live and time sensitive, as well as very high yield (whether disarm-able or not).

The subject is extremely intelligent and well schooled/educated. Declares hundreds of thousands of lives are to be taken by said devices. And upon request for their demands, reveals that none such demands exist. They wish only to watch the world burn, or even bask in the reality that it will be occurring on their behalf. They don’t care about imprisonment, or whatever felt lies ahead of them. Though it is unclear why they specifically wanted to be captured in order to pass along the knowledge of this looming event.

Perhaps officials weigh options, psycho analyze until their blue in the face, and are sort of at a stand still. Maybe they doubt the sheer amount of devices the subject has claimed. And in accordance with specific times they have given for particular detonations, indeed mass casualty events ensue. Terror strikes the community, and leaks of the ongoing situation internally spread like wildfire amongst the public.

Something in the back of officials minds quickly trends on Twitter and other last forms, even sparking mass protests IN FAVOR of…. - If we are unable to detect these devices or predict their locations/timelines, do we use “enhanced interrogation methods” to try and extract such information from the subject.

We have every reason in the world to assume that hundreds of thousands of lives are indeed to be taken in the fact of inaction, or possibly any kind of action. No other option remains. Many suggested a stay at home order to wait out the risk, but the subject anticipated this and has alleged vast periods of time are covered by the explosives, and such retreats of the public are simply not viable/tenable, as it would require years of abandonment of commercial and public spaces coast to coast.

In this event, is Torture as a last ditch effort acceptable?

I’m assuming that those in charge would be resorting to it much sooner that later out here, once the risk was verified, and options expended. Maybe whether successful or not, the subject would be “suicided”, or something along those lines.

But from an ethic and moral viewpoint, is this action ever justified in the scenario outlined above?

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Posted by3 days ago
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Posted by7 days ago

Summary: This post is a follow-up to an earlier one, discussing the potential connection between ethicality and sustainability. This post is a further elaboration on that attempt to make ethical determinations that are in agreement with the system that I proposed, back in April. More bluntly, it’s an opportunity to take a whack at the whole ‘sustainability’ hypothesis with my stick o’ reason and see if anything sweet falls out.

I will be doing this all blindfolded, so forgive any typos odf h sknn/…

Alright!

Sustainability noun

  1. The ability to be maintained at a certain rate or level. “the sustainability of economic growth"

  2. Avoidance of the depletion of natural resources in order to maintain an ecological balance.

  3. The use of resources in a way that meets the needs of the present without compromising the ability of future generations to meet their own needs.

Sustain verb

  1. Cause to continue or be prolonged for an extended period or without interruption. Similar: continue, carry on, keep up, keep going, perpetuate

Given the above definitions, allow me to restate the assertion. I propose that there is a direct correlation between sustainability and ethicality and vice versa. That is to say, I have a strong suspicion that the two terms are synonymous. However, just because something seems true doesn’t mean that it is, and when we want something to be true, that is when we must be the most skeptical. So, what are the flaws in equating ethics with sustainment?

Let’s look at some examples. What are some things that most people consider to be good and bad, and are they, in fact, sustainable or unsustainable practices?

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