Watch the YouTube version of this episode HERE
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Are you a new lawyer and need help getting your name out there? In this podcast episode, Jim and Tyson introduce Vaidas Cikotas and Steve Williams from RizeUp Media, a digital marketing agency specializing in law firm marketing. They all discuss how attorneys can establish an online presence and set the foundations for their business.
Working as a new defense lawyer involves a lot of marketing to get those first few clients. People need to be able to find you as a lawyer. One thing that is important to set up is Google My Business. This allows someone to add and edit business info and allows you to know how people find your business. This makes sure all information is up to date so you do not lose a single customer.
Networking is an important aspect of any business. In the legal field, networking with fellow attorneys is crucial to not only making connections but letting others know you are in business. If a fellow attorney cannot take on a case, they may refer a client to you. Being new in the business is all about making connections. Creating an online presence is another way to get your name and business out there. In relation to the legal field, commenting on various cases that are making headlines is a great way for people to understand your perspective. Social media like Twitter or Facebook is a great tool for this. The more online presence you have, the easier it will be for people to find you when they search on Google.
Vaidas and Steve talk about how a lot of great law firms exist but because they don't have a solid and consistent online presence, people are not aware of their work. They emphasize the need to keep an up to date website with the correct contact information, staff directory and biographies and the cases that attorneys have worked on. Think about this: If you need someone to landscape your backyard and the companies you are searching up do not have pictures of their landscaping work, you are not going to hire them. The same thing goes for law firms! Law firms and lawyers alike need to show their successes to get clients.
Take a listen!
Jim’s Hack: Don’t give your cell phone number to your clients when they are your clients, but give it to them after so they can refer you cases.
Vaidas's Tip: Understand what you are spending for marketing and ask for help.
Steve’s Tip: Give your clients your office phone number of your firm when they sign up.
Tyson’s Tip: Use Zoho voice!
Speaker 1 (00:00:01) - Run your law firm the right way. The right way. This is the Maximum lawyer podcast. Podcast. Your hosts, Jim Hacking and Tyson Metrics. Let's partner up and maximize your firm. Welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (00:00:24) - Welcome back to the Maximum Lawyer podcast. I'm Jim Hacking.
Speaker 3 (00:00:28) - And I'm Tyson Matrix. What's up Jimmy It seems like you've had a lot more energy today. I like it like with your with your intro. I'm liking it.
Speaker 2 (00:00:35) - Awesome. Well I'm excited about our guest. We have some old friends, some great supporters of maximum lawyer of the guild of our Masterminds, and we're really happy to have them. Do you want to go ahead and introduce our guests? Yeah.
Speaker 3 (00:00:47) - So we've got our good friends, Vitus and Steve with Rise Up Media, which is a digital marketing agency that's focused on website design, SEO, Google Pay per Click or Google, PPC and social media for law firms. They've been an amazing supporter of us. They've been a great sponsor of our more than a more than a few at this point, guild masterminds.
Speaker 3 (00:01:08) - And so they've been a great partner with us. And all I've heard is amazing things from people. It's interesting because we'll you and I have dealt with a lot of different vendors in general, and I don't I don't treat rise up as like a as a vendor. They've been like really good partners. And so Steve and invite us thank you so much for everything you've done for us. You've been a great partner. You've been very supportive of our guild members and gotten them really great results. So thank you so much for coming on the show.
Speaker 4 (00:01:34) - Yeah, thanks for having us. And yeah, it's been a really good partnership. Thanks for letting us get some exposure to your membership. Awesome.
Speaker 2 (00:01:41) - Awesome. So we thought since you guys have been on the show before that we might take a little bit of a different tack. We have a great new member in the Guild. His name is Phil Harvey and he's a former prosecutor and now he just hung out his shingle as a criminal defense lawyer. And I thought that it might be fun for all four of us to sort of spitball if we're Phil or if we're someone who is just getting ready to start or are starting our own firm.
Speaker 2 (00:02:06) - When it comes to digital marketing, what advice would you have for him at this stage? And then maybe we'll hit some other stages later on in the show.
Speaker 4 (00:02:15) - Steve you want me to take this one? Oh, sure. Absolutely. Yeah. So, you know, we we obviously deal with firms that go through multiple stages, but when someone is starting out, especially coming from, say, the prosecution side, now they're going to play a defense lawyer. The key is, is that they're findable. They're obviously not bringing over necessarily a lot of their client base, and they're probably looking to grow their firm and attract new clients. So knowing that there probably isn't a lot of cash flow coming in yet, they're sort of just the basics of being able to be found. The first thing I would do if I was Phil is Google myself and see what shows up. Is it is it his prior employment? Does he have a Google? My business? Sounds like he'll probably have an office claiming his Google my business and verifying that is probably the first step and then making sure that when someone does Google him, gets referred to him or looks for him, that he has something there that's professional.
Speaker 4 (00:03:06) - Even if he's just starting out, he should have some level of a website that's professional because people will look at him that way first before they ever reach out to him to to be hired. So what shows up first in Google, if I'm looking for him, is probably the most important thing. You know, showing up for SEO related stuff where, you know, for different types of criminal searches is further down the road. It's really his brand and his name that needs to be correct right out of the gate.
Speaker 5 (00:03:32) - And can piggyback on that a little bit. There's a lot of free services that that he can take advantage of. He can go and claim free profiles on on a lot of the legal directories such as AVO, expertise, justice law, low info which will get him to control the first page because the most important thing you can do is any law firm, even starting out, is to control what people see about you on page one. You know, there's a there's a a lot of lawyers that still out there today that never Googled themselves.
Speaker 5 (00:04:02) - And it's it's shocking because nobody nobody in 2023 doesn't do research before making a hiring decision, no matter if it's a car flooring or law firm.
Speaker 3 (00:04:14) - So I like this. So let's let's for anyone that's just starting out, let's kind of give them like a starter pack, like how they should start. So you gave you gave a few websites that people should join. So you got you got your Google my business page. They've got their website set up, they've got all these different directories that they've signed up. So we've got that. They Google themselves. They can now find themselves, I guess Vitus Like what's that next step though? Where should they go from there once they've got all that in place?
Speaker 4 (00:04:39) - Yeah. So in speaking specifically to Phil, from a criminal standpoint, it's obviously different for practice areas that are outside of criminal. But in thinking about attorneys that I've started with that are criminal, I mean, they go anywhere from putting themselves on the docket to get cases referred to them by the district attorneys.
Speaker 4 (00:04:56) - Networking, I think, is really huge. You know, getting the other attorneys to know that you're in practice. And if there's cases that they can't handle or have overflow or don't do, it's really about growing your brand and network and letting the legal community that you're in know that you are now a practicing lawyer. The other thing in his specific category would be that because he came from the prosecution side, that's a really a big differentiator in a lot of ways because in a sense you've been on the other side. So you. Know how it works. So in a criminal standpoint, I think that's that's something that should be showcased on that point.
Speaker 2 (00:05:28) - For me, one of the things that I think he should really be thinking about is creating content, because right now he doesn't have tons of clients. So I'd be thinking about creating criminal content every day and trying to sort of news jack things. Yesterday, Alec Murdoch's defense attorneys filed a motion for a new trial and alleging that the clerk of court has tampered with some of the jurors.
Speaker 2 (00:05:50) - And so I think that I would just be creating 2 or 3 pieces of content every day just to really build up his presence on social media. What do you guys think about that?
Speaker 5 (00:05:59) - I absolutely think any content is good content. I mean, Google Day one, they're a they're a content grabbing. Mechanism. All they want to do is add content 24 over seven, and they they value websites that actually contribute to content for them. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (00:06:16) - See, on top of that, you know, being that, you know, he's got a website out of the gate or at least has a shell of a website. Adding blog entries on those type of things is a great way to sort of become an authority. And Google will actually index those those blog entries. And as far as suggestions go, one of the questions we get a lot specifically about AI, Hey, what if I just had ChatGPT write a bunch of content? For me, that's actually not a good idea, but people use it in a way to get ideas.
Speaker 4 (00:06:43) - In other words, you can ask for like, what are the top 20 things that people ask about criminal defense, family law, whatever that it is, It can provide you an outline of things that you could actually then go into depth and write about. There's a lot of people don't really you know, they might have 2 or 3 things, but they kind of get lost after that. So there's ways to also bluntly look at what your competition is doing. Take a look at who's on the first page of Google for the type of cases that you want. Take a look at what their website says. Take a look at the type of things they're writing about. So obviously, don't copy it because that's a big no no. But you can obviously take that to get ideas.
Speaker 3 (00:07:17) - So where does AdWords come into all this, though? So at what point should he start to consider AdWords? Because that can be a really effective way of getting cases really quickly. It's expensive, but it can be expensive.
Speaker 3 (00:07:28) - But when should that start to be a consideration?
Speaker 5 (00:07:31) - I'll take this one, but it's actually it should be as soon as he can afford it. So the the new Google's new advertising mechanism is called local service ads. And if you do a search for a criminal lawyer, you'll see the three at the very top. The biggest unknown about these. These are pay per call advertisements. You don't pay unless your phone rings. So Google charges, I think, a $500 a week minimum. So it's a $2,000, but you're actually only paying for phone calls for criminal. So if somebody calls you for a family law case, but you only have criminal checked, you can actually challenge a Google to get your money back. So it's one of the most effective ways to get actual phone calls from people looking for a specific type of attorney. Right. We recommend that to almost every one of our clients, especially when you haven't when you're just starting, because SEO is a is a long term play. Nobody does a website and then starts ranking immediately.
Speaker 5 (00:08:24) - You have to index and sometimes that takes six, seven months. So it is a great way to get your phone ringing right out of the gate.
Speaker 4 (00:08:31) - Yeah. And to piggyback on that, Tyson, you specifically asked about pay per click, which obviously is the clicks to the website or landing page. Like Steve said, the first real avenue to advertise on Google should be the local service ads because you don't have to spend the budget. If you put your money into pay per click, Google will spend your money. If it's 2000, it's 5000, 10,000 a month. They will spend your money. You can sign up for local service ads. Unless your phone rings, you will not get charged by Google. And the key to setting up a local service ad, which is basically tied to immediately, is your Google my business. And so you have to have an authenticated Google. My business and you have to have at least five reviews that actually start showing your five, your stars actually showing up because you won't show up in local service ads until you have that.
Speaker 4 (00:09:17) - So that's sort of the first step. But you can have local service ads up within a day or two of actually getting verified and get that phone ringing right away. In fact, that's how we start a lot of our clients that's going, Hey, we're going to build a website that's going to take 90 days and then SEO is going to take time. We can get your phone ringing tomorrow if we start the ads, so you can start generating revenue and getting clients in before your website's even launched.
Speaker 2 (00:09:41) - You're listening to the Maximum Lawyer podcast today. Our guests are Vitus and Steve from Rise Up Media. Now, fellas, I was just Googling around for old Phil Harvey and it turns out there's another attorney in Virginia named Phil Harvey. So what what can we do when we have a situation like that? Our Phil is a criminal defense attorney in Memphis. How do how do we deal with something sucky like that where the names are the same?
Speaker 5 (00:10:05) - It's it really it's claiming your GMB and having a having your GMB set up in your firm's name, your actual name, maybe adding in the middle initial to your name and then add that to the bar association as well.
Speaker 5 (00:10:19) - Say if you just ask Philip Harvey, but he's Philip Mark Harvey can be Philip Harvey Bar and then Google is if you're searching, if somebody's searching for Phil Harvey and they're sitting there, if he's in Miami and they're sitting in Miami, Google's going to assume that they're looking for Phil Harvey in Miami, if that makes sense. So the big thing is that he gets his his name out there, his GMB set up the correct way and have have everything to match. So all of his listings that he claims that talked about earlier, they should all be branded the same. So if he has Philip Harvey on his GMB, he should have Philip Harvey on his listings on all the legal directories that are free and the Better Business Bureau and things. That's going to control that first page when people are looking for.
Speaker 4 (00:11:07) - Yeah. And something else with that. The more directories that he actually signs up for and is listed and it can be everything from honestly Yellow Pages, Yelp, anywhere where you can list a business, you want to claim those things.
Speaker 4 (00:11:20) - Most of them have a free option. The other thing that is really important, like Steve mentioned, is the name, address, phone number. It's called the nap. And that means that you want them all to be exactly the same, the exact same firm name. If there's a PLC or something at the end, make sure that's on every single one of them. If there's a suite, you actually you either abbreviate or you write out suite, you want it to match. Exactly. And when that happens in Google indexes, that stuff. Most people don't search for a person's name without entering some level of location or if they're on their phone. Google knows where you are, but he'll have a better chance of showing up there versus somebody that's in New Jersey or wherever. You said the guy shown up.
Speaker 3 (00:11:59) - All right. So I've got is I've got as I search as I searched Phil Harvey attorney Memphis and I mean, he's got his Google my business set up the first search entry is Phil Harvey Law which is a LinkedIn link.
Speaker 3 (00:12:13) - And then it's got his looks like it's got law office of Shelby County Public Defender's office. So like it's he's on there and then it's his website, then then justice and then Board of Professional Responsibility, which is just like the bar website which lists his information and lawyer. And then there's a news article about, I think, a case he represented someone on. So does it seem like he's in good shape with what I just said, or is there something that you can think of that maybe he should focus on to move things around a little bit? Like, is it okay for his LinkedIn article or LinkedIn page to be like the top of the search result?
Speaker 4 (00:12:45) - So you would ideally want his website to be first. And I'm looking I'm pulling up his website right now just to kind of take a peek at it. It might be brand new, it might not be indexed sometimes, you know, it can take Google 30 days to actually index your website to where you're showing up. His website actually looks you know, it's decent.
Speaker 4 (00:13:02) - So it's not like it's just some one page type thing. But to answer your question, LinkedIn, a lot of times shows up first when somebody just launches something because LinkedIn is huge and it's been out there forever. But ideally in any situation, if I Google you, your website should be the first result, followed by LinkedIn, followed by directories, followed by AVO and these sorts of things. So it looks like he's actually done a decent job with the AVO. Well, his website now is actually showing up fourth in my search, so it's climbing, it's on the first page, so that should displace LinkedIn in the near future would be my guess. But he's also got this you said the Shelby County public defender page showing up number two. And I would reach out to them and see if they could remove him from that page because obviously he's not there anymore and he doesn't want that actually showing up. People assuming he's still in the public defender side.
Speaker 2 (00:13:54) - Oh, so I probably misspoke. I said he was a prosecutor.
Speaker 2 (00:13:57) - I guess he was a public defender before him. But the point the points will taken, so that's good. Okay. So next stage. So now that we sort of have our legs under us, we've done sort of the basics, then what would be sort of the next stage? What are the things that Phil starts thinking about after, after he has the basics sort of taken care of? Well, I.
Speaker 5 (00:14:13) - Think once he starts, once his phone starts ringing and he starts generating revenue on a consistent basis, he looks at the long term play for anybody, but it's the cheapest cost for client acquisition that you can get eventually, because the goal for us is always like buying a set early. We will start people off on the local service ads because they get your phone ringing immediately. But as you grow and build a firm and, you know, 90, 90% of you guys live on referrals, referrals from other attorneys, referrals from previous clients, the goal for us is to get you to show up organically everywhere you want to be, for what you want to be shown up for, right? For criminal law.
Speaker 5 (00:14:50) - So we'll use Phil's example. You know, he wants criminal law in Memphis. He might want us in the subcommunities outside. But a good strategy is basically writing a lot of content that's that has SEO on it and getting to show up and getting calls from organically instead of the ads, because eventually that's going to that's going to lower your client acquisition cost and build your practice. So that's probably my next step. Vitus Yeah, I.
Speaker 4 (00:15:21) - Mean, once he actually starts doing that and again getting back to the local service ads, I'm just remembering clients that are specifically in criminal law that like, Hey, you know, I need my phone to ring now and I have a limited budget. So, you know, the phone starts ringing. They signed 2 or 3 DUIs up. All of a sudden, they just made $12,000 that now they have a little income coming in because the last thing you want to do is spend too little. If you're going to do SEO, I mean, you can always grow into things.
Speaker 4 (00:15:47) - But, you know, it's having done this for 20 years, there's a lot of wrong ways to do websites. And that's one of those things where bluntly, the service that you guys offer in your in your forms and things where ask other attorneys what they're doing, if you're considering some options, there's nothing. Wrong with asking people, Has anyone worked with these guys? Does anyone have any recommendations? Because you're going to get a every lawyer out there who's made bad decisions when it comes to their marketing, whether it's software, whether it's a website provider, whether it's you name it, and, you know, learn from their mistakes because most people are willing to share like, yeah, don't don't go to these guys. I tried them. It didn't work whatever those that that those lessons are. But to kind of circle that back it's really about growing your visibility and your footprint. What we tell our clients is work in your backyard first, try to get visibility in that area and then grow exponentially out from there.
Speaker 4 (00:16:41) - And that takes time. All right.
Speaker 3 (00:16:42) - So this is sort of a this is a question that you may or may not be able to answer. But so I did search Memphis criminal defense attorney. And so LSA takes up the top part of the page. And then then you got the three pack and then it looks like it's it's almost like for Memphis, at least we've gone back a decade where it's a lot about directories. Again, if like the Google had corrected that recently and now it's back to directories so is I mean as of right now in Memphis based on what I just searched is should the focus be on the SEO or is sort of phasing out when it comes to things like that, is Google trying to push you more towards the the pay per click, the Lse's? So I guess my question is, is the SEO becoming less important or should it still be one of your main focuses?
Speaker 5 (00:17:30) - I just did a search, just did the exact same search in Memphis. And what it tells me is there's not a whole lot of there's not a lot of attorneys that are doing the right way.
Speaker 5 (00:17:38) - Anytime you see legal directories that go on the first page and middle America is like this. I mean, the major cities have figured out the Atlanta, the New York's, the Chicago's the LA you. If you do a search for a criminal lawyer in those cities, you will not find a legal directory. If we want to go back to the theme of fill, this is an opportunity for fill because there's a lot of criminal firms in Memphis that just aren't doing the right way.
Speaker 3 (00:18:03) - So, yeah, that's I think that's really valuable information. That's I love to hear that because that means that he's got a real possible vacuum to go and actually do some work and start to take over.
Speaker 5 (00:18:15) - I'll also share something with you. Tyson Let me invite us let me finish this point. Dyson Are you still on the page?
Speaker 3 (00:18:20) - I'm still on the page, Yep.
Speaker 5 (00:18:21) - Okay. So you see the top three, the local service ads. You see more criminal attorneys and lawyers in Memphis when you click that link.
Speaker 6 (00:18:29) - Yep.
Speaker 5 (00:18:30) - If you click that link, there'll be a dropdown. So you got I got Finley and on these other these firms. But if you only see one checkmark, that means only one person has their eyes turned on. And if you only see 5 or 6 names, that's the 5 or 6 people without a checkmark are not paying for it right now. But Google is still serving them up. And if you only see 5 or 6 names, those are the only people competing for three spots. It is an immediate phone call. Raj to smile because I.
Speaker 3 (00:18:58) - Didn't know that. That's that's good information. I didn't know.
Speaker 6 (00:19:00) - That. That's great.
Speaker 4 (00:19:01) - So so on that point as well, and I'm looking at the same screen, what's really a bad decision by the guy that's actually got the check? Mark is Finley and Stein. He's got two reviews and he's got one star. And that doesn't look well. You know, if you if you pull up a restaurant you want to eat at and you see one star, I bet that's as far as you go.
Speaker 4 (00:19:22) - So to Steve's point, Opportunity Galore, the guy that's actually showing up has one star. So advice to fill, get some reviews, get up there, start the ads. You can start your phone ringing almost immediately. To Steve's point on the to your question initially about the directories, Steve nailed it. If there's a bunch of directories on that first page, that means Google doesn't have a better option to serve up on those search results. If you do a search in a larger city, you'll see a directory spattered here and there. You'll see directories doing pay per click just so they can actually show up on that page because they're not going to get the organic love because Google, I think, wants to have actual businesses show up versus directories. At the end of the day, we're all at the mercy of what Google decides. I've had a lot of people say, Well, why doesn't Google just monetize the entire page? Well, I think as a consumer, if you got to the point where every single spot on that page is purchased, you're going to go look elsewhere.
Speaker 4 (00:20:16) - So they still have to have some level of organic or a real result, which is basically what SEO is. And in this example, there's very little competition on that first page. So that would be a focus absolutely.
Speaker 5 (00:20:29) - Like Titan. Can I go back to one more thing that that you asked me about, like what they should do in the next step? Absolutely. Think it's important for all law firms to understand that you really need to have your online reputation match your actual reputation because there's a lot of good lawyers out there, including ones that belong to Max Law, that they have a stellar reputation within the legal community, within the community in general. But then you go online and you see you see a website that's dated from the late the early 2000s. Right. It hasn't been updated and nobody makes a purchasing decision in 2023 without a reading reviews and be checking out the website. Right. That none of us are hiring a landscape company to come to our house to do landscaping. If they don't have a website with pictures of work they've done right.
Speaker 5 (00:21:17) - So many referrals. I get asked for referrals every day because I've been doing internet marketing for law firms for 25 years. I think I give two names or three names. Your website, 90% of time is the first thing a potential client sees about you. If you're a transactional law firm 90% of the time, that's the first thing somebody sees about you. So it's important to have something represent you and match your actual reputation.
Speaker 4 (00:21:41) - Yeah, and to piggyback on that, I tell people before anyone calls you before anyone these days, even walks into your office, they are going to Google you. So is your website a good representation of why somebody should hire you, especially if they're going to compare you to somebody else? And that is a lot of times a bit of an eye opener to people because then they're like, Oh man, my I had my kid do my website this weekend. You know, like there's certain things you want to outsource to the professionals because this is going to have a big impact on whether people hire you or not.
Speaker 4 (00:22:12) - It's not on the it's not the best place to decide. You've got a nephew that's majoring in computer science and he's got a couple hours to spare this weekend. Hire people that know what they're doing and can get you those results.
Speaker 2 (00:22:23) - So that's a perfect segue to my last question, which is how does a young lawyer with a new law firm know when it's time to bring in the professionals? I know that there might be an answer. Oh, as soon as he starts, but obviously a lot of people can't afford that. So what are the signs that someone might be ready to transition to working with something as sophisticated as rise up?
Speaker 5 (00:22:45) - I think revenue stream, when you when you get to a point that you have consistent revenue, it's time to start marketing yourself. You know this this goes to all law firms say the worst time to start advertising is when you need to because you know, we talked to a lot of you guys and it's like, man, I got 30. We're we're working with a PR firm in Baltimore right now.
Speaker 5 (00:23:03) - And she's like, I got 125 cases of cases going on personal injury. And she said something. It really resonated with me. She's like, but can't wait until I need more cases to start advertising because then it's too late. That's my biggest recommendation to anybody. The time to do it is when you're doing well, when you have consistent revenue coming in the door.
Speaker 4 (00:23:24) - Yeah, and let me piggyback on that. You know, revenue stream matters. If you if you have if you have no money in the. I think it's really hard to spend money on advertising, right? So a lot of our clients are like, Hey, I'm ready to start this. I'm waiting on this settlement or this cheque to come in and I'm going to spend the money then. So, you know, don't reach beyond your comfort level. No one wants to be up at night worrying about their marketing budget. Right? But at the same time, you know, as soon as possible. I mean, those local service ads are the easiest, cheapest way to get into getting that phone to ring.
Speaker 4 (00:23:56) - We've got firms that literally are like, I would spend every dime I could 100% into those local service ads if there was enough volume to support it, because it's the cheapest call acquisition client acquisition strategy that's out there. And right now Google's got those local service ads above everything else.
Speaker 3 (00:24:13) - All right, guys, we're going to wrap things up from there. Great information. Hopefully we're going to get this to fill right away because I think he's going to he's going to get a kick out of this. Before we wrap, though, Vitus and Steve, will you tell people how to get in touch with you if they want to? High rise up. Yeah, My phone number.
Speaker 4 (00:24:28) - You can call, text is (704) 953-7051. My email is Vitus spelled VI DS and David as is in Sam at Rise up media and rise up is spelled with a Z.
Speaker 5 (00:24:43) - Very good I'm pretty easy I'm Steve at rise up my cell phones (412) 713-2764. But it's Steve at Rasa I'm a little easier than Vitus.
Speaker 4 (00:24:54) - Steve It rides up media.
Speaker 5 (00:24:56) - Browser Medium.com.
Speaker 3 (00:24:58) - Very good. They're the great guys to hang out with and listen. We've had a lot of members stand up and just tell everyone how great they've done for him.
Speaker 4 (00:25:06) - But and Tyson, if I can add one thing, that's okay. Yeah. For anybody that's listening, Steve and I have been in this industry a long time. There's no pressure to work with us. We're more than happy to analyze anything that you're doing. If you think it's doing great or if you have no idea, we'll be happy to put put your stuff into our tools, give you some feedback. Just as an example, we just started talking to to a woman that's spending an awful lot of money, and the company she's working with hasn't really given her any analytics whatsoever. And once we actually shared that with her, to say her jaw was on the floor was what would be an understatement. So the point is, if you don't know and a lot of lawyers don't know, they just say, well, it's the phone's ringing, so it must be working.
Speaker 4 (00:25:47) - You really want to know where your where your dollars are working and where they're not to make sure you're allocating it to the part that's going to get you the most clients. So we offer we'll get on a Zoom call, we'll talk to you. We'll do we'll take a look at your competition. We'll take a look. If what you're doing is working and the kind of traffic you're getting and there's no obligation to work with us, we're happy to share that information.
Speaker 3 (00:26:06) - Love it. And your month to month, which is also pretty awesome. Pretty amazing.
Speaker 6 (00:26:10) - Yep.
Speaker 5 (00:26:11) - Hold us accountable to your success.
Speaker 3 (00:26:12) - Love it. All right. So let's wrap things up, guys. Before I do, I want to remind everyone to join us in the big Facebook group search Maxim lawyer, find us. You'll find us there. Join us on our subscribe to our YouTube channel. You'll get a lot of our content there as well. And if you want a more high level conversation, join us in the Guild. Go to Max Law guild.com.
Speaker 3 (00:26:30) - And while you're listening to the rest of this episode, if you've gotten something from this episode or if you enjoy our tips or hacks, if you don't mind leaving us a five star review, we would greatly appreciate it. Jimmy, what's your hack of the week?
Speaker 2 (00:26:42) - Well, since Vitus and Steve were so kind to just give out their cell phone numbers, it reminded me of something I've been wanting to leave as my hack of the week, and that is that I don't like to give my cell phone number to my clients while they're my clients. But when the case is over, I like to give them my cell phone number so that they can refer me cases in the future. So Imani is sort of very militant about not giving out her cell number at all. But I've gotten lots of texts on my phone from people that that I represented a long time ago and just giving them my cell phone at that stage so that I don't have to worry about them, bother me the whole time during the case is a game changer.
Speaker 6 (00:27:16) - Well, let.
Speaker 3 (00:27:16) - Me just start by saying that might get you some business, but I think you're out of your freaking mind. But hey, man, if it works, good, good for you. I don't see myself doing that. But hey, man, go for it. All right. Vitus and Steve, we always ask people, our guests to give a tip or hack of the week so we get A11 here. So what you got? We'll go Vitus in Steve. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (00:27:35) - So my. My hack is basically kind of a little bit on what we touched on already and that is to understand what you're spending, have an analytics that are available to you and make sure that whoever you're working with is a partner, not just someone that sold you something and basically tries to get you to renew year after year without actually diving deep into performance analytics. And as well as that, ask for help. There's no shame in asking other people like, Hey, what's working for you? What isn't? Most people aren't going to show their entire hand, if you will.
Speaker 4 (00:28:07) - But, you know, I'd much rather ask somebody and avoid a mistake, rather thinking I can figure it out by myself.
Speaker 3 (00:28:13) - I love it. Steve.
Speaker 5 (00:28:14) - I'll keep on the phone thing. So if you're doing if you're a firm that does a lot of marketing, once somebody becomes a client, give them your actual phone number to your firm, not your cell phone. Finally, Jim, they'll give me your actual number, not your trackable number, so that they won't view your results for your for your marketing so that we have a lot of people that they because they dial on a local service number which is a recorded number by Google, they keep calling that number. It charges them every time they call. So once you sign a client, give them your actual office number.
Speaker 3 (00:28:51) - That's a good idea. All right. I will. What I'll do is I'm just going to save this one. I'm going to I'm going to stay on the phone theme. We're going to be switching before the end of the year from RingCentral over to Zoho voice, Zoho, voice.
Speaker 3 (00:29:01) - Those we've been with all the Zoho products for a couple of years now and Zoho just launched Voice about a year ago and we've been waiting for it to get good enough and it is fantastic. We've tested out with some of our team members and they say it's a thousand times better than RingCentral call. Quality is substantially better and it's a fraction of the price. So we're going to be switching over. Our contract ends with RingCentral at the end of the year. Unfortunately, we do have a contract unlike with Rise Up, which they're month to month, but so we're stuck until the end of the year. But by the end of the year we will be switching over to Zoho voice. It's amazing. Yes.
Speaker 2 (00:29:34) - Just real quick for the record, if anybody wants Tyson's cell phone number, just email me and I'll give it to you. I'll tell you Tyson's number. If anybody listening needs it, you know.
Speaker 3 (00:29:42) - If one of the maximum lawyers is listening, you can give it to him. I'm okay with that.
Speaker 3 (00:29:46) - All right. Vitus and Steve, thank you so much. Thank you so much for just being great partners with us and really treating our guild members just so greatly. So thank you for coming on and sharing some great information.
Speaker 6 (00:29:56) - All right.
Speaker 5 (00:29:56) - Thank you.
Speaker 2 (00:29:57) - Thanks, guys. See you.
Speaker 1 (00:30:00) - Thanks for listening to the Maximum Lawyer podcast. Stay in contact with your host And to access more content, go to maximum lawyer.com. Have a great week and catch you next time.
Amy McGarry
I listen to every podcast, Saturday morning shows, HotSeats, etc. The information and ideas I learn from
each one. I may only receive a nugget of information, or feel encouraged that I am not the only one
going through something.
Jennifer Harlow
The podcast and fb group has been life altering. I always felt like I would never know enough to hang my
own shingle and employ people, but here I am, killing it. Lots of actionable steps for working on mindset,
business (some I had to go outside of law to learn) and really gathering attorneys who are willing to
share and lift up others, as opposed to tearing other attorneys down. I first heard about the podcast on
Ernie the Attorneys podcast and how they were doing amazing stuff. And they continue to do so. Now if
we could bring back maxlawcon I’d be over the moon.
AMEC 2022
My name is Phil and I just met Dr. Renee Darko at AMEC Conference. Her energy was radiant and inviting; similar to how it is on the show. Drs Nii and Renee Darko are doing amazing
Yo Nii
Love the show especially first generation or first in family physicians!! Stories of the hard work, bus rides to prerequisite classes etc.. Digging out of school debt then making
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